Organize Your Home with Shira Gill – 020

You are listening to the Less Drama More Mama podcast episode 20: Organize Your Home with Shira Gill.

This is Less Drama More Mama, a podcast for moms who want to feel calm, in control, and confident about how to handle anything life throws their way. If you’re ready to go from feeling frazzled and disrespected, to feeling calm and connected, this is the podcast for you. I’m your host, Pam Howard.

Hey, Mama. I can’t believe it. We’re already at episode 20. You are amazing. Thank you for listening in every week. I absolutely love doing these podcasts. And I took a look at my podcast statistics and analytics. And I have listeners all over the world. It kind of blows my mind. In France, Israel, Australia, Canada, Brazil, China, the UK. I mean, it is so cool. So keep listening and sharing so we can get even more listeners around the world. The world needs a little less drama, and more Mama, wouldn’t you agree?

So you may remember that every tenth Episode I’m planning to do an interview to introduce you to people I think are fabulous. And today I’ve got a super fun one for you.

Shira Gill, is the founder of Shira Gill Home, which merges the principles of minimalism with life coaching, home organization, and interior styling. Shira’s mission is to inspire people to clarify their core values so that they can clear mental and physical clutter, create a space for what they truly care about, and live their best lives.

Since founding her business, Shira has transformed hundreds of homes, helping her clients reclaim their living spaces, redefine their personal style, and redesign the way they live. Shira’s first of its kind virtual closet makeover program launched just this year in 2018, enabling women from around the globe to overhaul their spaces and transform their lives.

She’s been featured in tons of magazines, including two of my favorites, Real Simple, and Parents Magazine. And Shira is here today to share some of her best organizing tips with us.

I know you’re going to love this episode and love Shira as much as I do. I had so much fun chatting with her. And without further ado, here’s my interview with life coach and organization expert, Shira Gill.

Pam Howard 02:56

Alright. Hey, Shira, welcome to the show. I’m so happy you’re here.

Shira Gill  02:57

Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.

Pam Howard  03:00

So I just figured we’ll start by having you tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do.

Shira Gill  03:07

Sure, so basically, I am kind of a combination of a life coach and a home organizer. And I help mainly busy moms de-clutter and organize their houses. And then I also have a newly launched virtual program that teaches my philosophy and all of my practices with de-cluttering and organization, but uses the closet as the vehicle. So the program is basically a combo platter of learning how to edit, how to organize. And then as kind of a fun bonus, how to style yourself and your closet. So you can feel like you get a little style refresh out of the deal, too.

Pam Howard  03:50

Mm. Okay, so how, how did you get into this work? Like, I, have you always been an organized person? Or did you, (yeah) did you have

Shira Gill  03:59

So yeah, (Yeah?) I, I would say I have, although it was something I didn’t really notice until I was an adult. But I will say I was always very sensitive to my environment. And I always like things in my room. I wanted them set up just so, you know, as a little kid. And you know, even when I was in the college dorms, I remember wanting my dorm room to feel like a curated boutique hotel and kind of thinking about how I could maximize my environment. So I was always really at…

Pam Howard  04:34

I bet, I bet your college roommate really loved that. (Yeah. Yeah,)

Shira Gill  04:39

Totally. She was she was so so on it, actually. But yeah, so it’s I’ve always just been kind of acutely aware of physical surroundings and how they affect us. And, um it really is funny because I love telling the story of how my business was born because it was born because I realized there was a problem. Nine years ago, when, um, I had a baby, I now have two daughters. But at the time, I was a new mom. And I was hosting mom’s groups and going to mom’s groups. And every single woman in my mother’s group confessed to being both overwhelmed and totally ashamed of their living spaces. And so that was kind of an aha moment for me of, you know, realizing like, wow, like I’m struggling with all sorts of other stuff. But like, that’s an area where I really feel like I’ve got it dialed in. And it’s really easy and effortless for me to maintain a kind of clean and tidy and organized home. So, um, it was out of that, and just talking with all of these women and mothers, that I started, you know, seeing my first clients and helping women kind of learn how to systematically go through one space at a time and, you know, thinking about the right questions to ask and getting the right motivation around why you want to have an organized home. And it was really just took off from there, you know, even without a concrete business plan or a vision for a business, it was just like, I saw the need, and I wanted to help. And then here we are almost ten years later.

Pam Howard  06:23

Wow, I’m so envious, because, you know, organization is something that I struggle with. And like I’m kind of organized. But, I, in terms of like, certain things, which I’ll ask you about later, like paper in particular. Um, I, I really, you know, I struggle. And I’ve read so many organization books and done, you know, the Marie Kondo thing and hired a professional organizer at one point, I mean, I have, I feel like I’ve made progress in a lot of areas. But, um, one thing that I love about you, and that’s unique about you is that you’re an organizer and a life coach. And you know, both of us got our certification at the same school, The Life Coach School. So we both teach the same tools and concepts. And I know that for myself, one of the reasons that I feel like I, I don’t stay organized, once I like I de-clutter, and I go through things, but then it kind of goes back to what it was, it’s gotta come down to what I’m thinking, right?

Shira Gill  07:26

Absolutely, yeah.

Pam Howard  07:28

(Yeah.) And so what are some of the most common thoughts that your clients have when it comes to organization?

Shira Gill  07:36

Yeah, well, so I would say like, when, when I meet people, there’s, they’re sort of on a loop of, like, my house is a disaster, everything’s a mess. I just can’t get on top of this, like, no matter what I do, the piles keep coming back. And as you know, like when you think those thoughts, they’re going to leave you to feel frustrated and anxious and overwhelmed. And, and positive action is never born out of negative emotion. So I think what I realized, and this was only, you know, after, um, my certification and learning these pools from The Life Coach School, I realized, like, my brain just normally thinks differently. So I walk into a space, and I see piles and I see clutter. I’m really curious. So I start thinking, like, I wonder why this is here. I wonder if it’s necessary. I wonder if it has a home. I wonder what this house would look like without all of the clutter? And so I guess those thoughts, fuel curiosity and inspiration. And, um, it’s from that point, that kind of spurs me into action, like, well, let’s figure this out. And let’s solve it., Um, so I think that’s the first thing is just getting curious about your clutter. Um, Instead of going straight to like, this is a mess, and it’s so frustrating, and it’s never going to get better.

Pam Howard  09:09

Yeah, you know what, as soon as I asked you this question, and you started answering, I realized, oh, my gosh, there’s my I had just said my thought to you, which was I struggle with organization. (Right?) And then that makes me feel so defeated (Yeah). And so I go into it, and it, it’s judged, you know, and it’s judging myself and so I’m like, already in this mindset of you know overwhelm and defeat. So of course, I’m not gonna want to clean it up.

Shira Gill  09:36

Absolutely. And, and I will say, like, most people, they have that same story of like, I’m just not an organized person. I’m just not good at this. And so I just want to, kind of debunk that myth that there are people that are organized innately and there are people that aren’t and that’s kind of the way is my belief and you know, having worked, now, with with hundreds of people, I can tell you really, that anyone can learn to be organized. And organization, I think of it as just a simple skill set and practice. It’s just like a habit. So the thing that I see is like, if the commitment is there, anybody can learn to be organized and be organized for the rest of your life, where I see people running into problems is when they lack the commitment or the motivation. And so that’s why I always start with my clients really wondering, like, why do you want to get organized? Like how would your life be different if you were organized? If you didn’t have clutter in your house? What would that make space for? So I always want to approach it from a really positive forward thinking place. As opposed to like, alright, this is a huge problem and a huge drag, and let’s just like hunker down and figure it out.

Pam Howard  10:59

Those are great questions. Why do you want to be organized? And you know, just trying to imagine how that would feel? (Right.) Yeah. And then, you know, kind of ask yourself, what do you need to think or believe in order to feel that way? (Mm hmm.) Um, right, because we need to be able to generate that feeling now, in order to take the action of cleaning up after ourselves and getting into that habit.

Shira Gill  11:23

Exactly. And I always like to emphasize, like, you know, thinking about all of the benefits of organization, and all of the benefits of having a clutter free space, because even now, you know, being a professional organizer, and having a streamlined home, there is constantly a flow of stuff into my house, I have two young kids, I have a puppy, I have a husband, we’re all very busy. So there’s a need to constantly be managing it. And I think what really helps me is focusing on all of the benefits of doing that work. So like I think about quality of life. Like I love hosting and having parties and having even just play dates for my kids. And I know that people who feel shame about their houses, don’t feel comfortable, hosting, having play dates having their friends over having parties. So for me, it’s like always thinking about that vision of like, what do I want my life to be like? And, then, how can my house my home support that vision. So like, I want to be able to travel and take trips with my family at a moment’s notice. So because our houses was streamlined and organized, we can rent our house out on Airbnb, pop in the car and take off. So that’s like a massive benefit. So it’s like things like that, that I focus on, like, the freedom, the quality of life, the efficiency, all of that. And it’s kind of thinking of your future self. Like, you know, nobody, I don’t know, any of you really enjoys doing dishes. And I actually hate doing dishes. And, um, in our house, my husband actually takes that on. But what we choose to think about is like tomorrow morning, when we wake up, we want to come into a kitchen to have breakfast, where the dishes are done and put away the countertops are clear. And we feel a fresh start and kind of a reset for our day. So that night before when we’re feeling like, oh, I don’t want to wipe down the counters. I don’t want to do the dishes. It’s that kind of forward thinking vision that can really get you over the hump.

Pam Howard  13:35

Yeah. And so you mentioned having two kids a puppy and a husband. (Yes.) And so I’m curious, like, I want to know, like, a day in the life, right, of Shira Gill. Like you come home (Yeah)? And like, what what do you guys do to maintain? Like, do you come home and everybody puts their bag in a certain place in their shoes in a place and? Or is it like, you know, at the end of every day, everybody then cleans up their stuff? Like tell us (yeah) what happens.

Shira Gill  14:02

Okay, so I’ll walk you through because I think this is, it’s such a good question. And it’s really important because I don’t feel like I spend a lot of time organizing, and I don’t feel like I spend a lot of time de-cluttering and I think the reason is that these little micro habits are so infused into our every day that it doesn’t even it’s so second nature. So basically so I pick my kids up from school, we walk in the door and, um,  we are in the Bay Area. So space is limited. We walk right in, there’s no mud room, but I do have hook setup right by the door and a, um basket for my kids shoes. So the first thing that happens right when we walk in the door is their backpacks go on the hooks, their jackets go on the hook, and they toss their shoes in the basket. So that takes about five seconds. But it is something that’s been set up as an expectation like this is just what we do. It’s how we enter the home. So now it is second nature, just the way like, when they used to go to preschool, they would have their little cubby where they put their lunch, and then a little cubby for their shoes. So the teacher didn’t have to tell them every single day, it was like, the system was set up and the expectation was there. So then it just becomes part of like entering the classroom. So that’s how I set my home up where it’s like, just like it’s school bag on the hook, put on the hook shoes in the basket, done. (Ok) So that’s what they do, I have a little stool where I just put my purse and, um, and you know, I have a handbag that has like my keys and my wallet and my phone. So that’s all consolidated. And then my husband has a designated place. But it’s nothing more than literally a little bench, um, next to our entry table where he drops his briefcase when he comes home. No, we each have like, our little spot. And I think of it as like, just everything has a designated home. And I should add to that, like we have a mail basket that’s just like a big, oversized wooden basket. And so when we come in, I’ll take mail in time, brought my purse down, and then mail bills, magazines, if my kids hand me a school form that needs to be filled out, any type of paper, um, to do, this gets popped in that basket. So then I know it’s centralized, it’s consolidated. I know where, it, when I have time, I know right where to go. (Ok) Um, and just those simple practices I outlined of like having the hooks for the bags and the spot for the person, the place for the bills in the mail, and practicing that little micro habit every day. I, I think it has this huge compound effect, um…

Pam Howard  17:00

And I will tell you, my we have the same almost the identical system in my house. So you know, I agree, it’s, it’s perfect. And it we don’t have to think about it every the shoes come off. And when they go to friends houses, they take their shoes off right away too. Because, you know, that’s just what they’re used to (great). But um, do you think that you know if a mom is listening to this right now, and she’s like, well, we don’t have that set up already. My kids are already older, like, do you feel like that would be a system for them to start? Or?

Shira Gill  17:29

Well, I think it, it certainly will be more challenging, obviously, than if they had been practicing it since their kids were little. Uh, but, no, I never think it’s too late to start a new habit. I think the key is getting buy in from the other members of your family.

Pam Howard  17:47

Yeah. (and so) And that’s another thing like (yes), like, because I hear a lot of a lot of moms will tell me like, you know, I’m trying to implement this new thing, but my husband is not on board (right) or my you know, my kids are giving me pushback. And so what do you tell moms, especially like with the spouse issue?

Shira Gill  18:04

Yes, yeah, it’s funny. This is like one of my my biggest questions that people have been asking, and I’m putting together a blog post on it right now. And, um, and and really, I mean, it comes down to nobody’s gonna like this answer. But we have, we can never control other people. As much as we would love to. We can’t we can make requests, we can say this is something that’s a value of mine and important to me, and I would really appreciate it if you X, Y or Z. But ultimately, people are going to do what they’re going to do. So what my tactic is and and I will say I’ve been with my husband for almost 20 years. And when I met him, he was a total slob, and he dumped stuff everywhere. And you know, we were like night and day. We have been together for a long time. So obviously we’ve had time to work this out and find common ground. But I think from the beginning, I kind of intuitively thought like okay, having a streamlined organized home is hugely important to me. It’s not that important to him. I’m choosing to spend my life with him. I can’t force him to do anything, but I want to make it as easy as possible for him to put things away. So I took on the bulk of the work in terms of streamlining and organizing and setting up simple intuitive systems like mail basket is an example of just saying what I bought this basket I put it in a really easy place by the door. When you come in I’d love any paper just toss it in here. So it couldn’t be easier. It’s just as easy as tossing it on any other surface in our home. But my thought around it was like let me make this as easy as possible for him to be on board with and to maintain. So kind of emphasizing like a) this is going to make your life easier because you can always find paperwork in our house, we know it’s only in one place. And b) it’s just as easy as tossing it on the kitchen counter, but this way, it doesn’t drive me crazy. So, that, it’s kind of a two fold answer of like one, ultimately, you have to take on the bulk of the work yourself, if it’s your need, and kind of own that, like, this is my need, I’m going to put more energy into it. And that’s okay. With kids. I think it’s different because I think we, as parents and adults are able to go beyond a request, right? Like, we can have expectations and rules and boundaries with our children. (Right) So I think of it as how can I make this as fun as possible for my kids, so that I’m not nagging them all the time, but still have a very clear expectation of like, in our house, you were asking like a day in the life. So you know, we come in, we put our stuff away, the kids do their homework, then they put their homework back in their backpack, then they can play, you know, do art, games, whatever run around outside with the puppy, and it’s dinner, and after dinner, they are responsible for clearing everything that they brought to the table and everything that they used. So we don’t really pass go until that happens. Like, if they want to watch a show or play a game. It’s like, well, first we do these things. This is the expectation of our family. So we’ll, they clear their own plates, then they pack their lunches for the next day and put them in the fridge. And then they’ll go brush their teeth, get in their PJs, and make sure like, everything is done and ready and reset for the next day. And at that point, I make sure there’s some sort of fun thing like, now we’re gonna do like family movie night, or we’ll do a game or we’ll read a book together. Everything’s taken care of now we have fun.

Pam Howard  21:55

Yeah, love that. And, and I actually teach something where I call it when then. So you say when all of this is done, then you get to watch your TV show. Or then you get to play a game or whatever. And it’s not, you know, if you do this, it’s when (right). So they know that they need to do that in order to get the fun part. I love that. (Yes) Yeah. And I don’t know if you do you remember the show? Bear in the big blue house? (No, it sounds great) I think it was like a Jim Henson Muppet-ey type show. And they sing this song about clean up the house. And so my kids and I sing that song whenever it’s like, Okay, everyone, let’s clean up the house. And I give them no, I’ll give like each one of us will get a bag for rounding up all of our stuff and taking it back to our rooms or whatever. And yeah, it’s totally fun.

Shira Gill  22:44

Yes. And I think I mean, to get back to your initial question about like, what if your partner isn’t on board? With my husband, who initially really wasn’t on board, I put a lot of energy into showing him the benefits. And my biggest advice is to always edit and organize every single thing you own before asking somebody else to do.

Pam Howard  23:08

Ah, yes,

Shira Gill  23:09

I have a lot of people who are just like, I would say most people are just frustrated generally. And they’re like, it’s all a mess. Everything’s a mess. Nobody’s doing anything. And they will, you know, nag their kids nag their partners. And I my first question always is, have you taken the time to thoughtfully edit and organize? Everything that you own? (Mm hmm.) And answers almost always no, like, Oh, God, I, no, my closet’s a mess. And you know, like, my purse is a mess. Uh…

Pam Howard  23:42

Right, ‘cause it’s so much easier to tell someone else. (Yeah, of course), that their stuff is than to look at your own. Yeah.

Shira Gill  23:47

Yeah. So that’s always I think, and leading by example, even just not talking to your partner your kids until you’ve done that, and then you really will be able to speak from a place of, you know, I just went through this process, and I’m just finding my life so much easier. I’m much less stressed. I don’t lose things all the time. I can find what I need. It takes two seconds to get dressed in the morning, like whatever the particular benefits are for you. And then like, Hey, do you want me to help you with so and so like, whatever area that you might be struggling with? I’d love to show you what I’ve learned.

Pam Howard  24:26

Yeah, and the best part is most of the time, you don’t even have to say that. They’ll notice (yeah) that you’ve made all these changes. And they’ll be like, Oh, that you know, you seem so much happier and lighter. Can you help me they’ll they’ll ask you because they notice the changes in you so you don’t even (totally) something? Yeah,

Shira Gill  24:42

yes. And I’ll see like with my husband, like I said to him, initially when he was resistant. I said, Listen, what if I don’t touch any of your stuff, but I do the whole house like I do the common property like, you know, the kids stuff and the kitchen and the dining room. platters. And he was like, yeah, if you want to spend your time doing that, that’s fine. And so I kind of got him to a place where he was like, Sure, go for it, but just don’t touch my domain. And so I was able to put in that work to create an edited streamlined home where then he started noticing like, oh, wow, it’s easier to do the dishes, we have less dishes, you know, (right) like, our kitchen looks a lovely in the morning, it’s easier to find things. And so then it was like, not until I had done all of that work. It was only at that point that I really broke like, Okay, now, can we look at your CDs? so…

Pam Howard  25:41

What do you say to, what do you say to the mom who hears you say that? And then she’s like, but that’s not fair. Or you know, they should, they should, you know, why is it all on me? And why should (right) I be the one to do it?

Shira Gill  25:53

Yeah, I mean, it’s so easy to think that but I think that thought doesn’t serve, you know, it may be true, it’s not fair. But I think thinking that is going to just leave you feeling stuck and frustrated. Whereas I choose to focus on like, Alright, my husband isn’t the best at editing and organizing. But he’s so good at these other things that I’m not good at. He brings that to the table. I bring this to the table together. What a great recipe. I think that’s so much more empowering and less frustrating, ultimately.

Pam Howard  26:29

Yeah, definitely. I love this conversation. I could talk about this stuff all day. Um, this So this episode is actually coming out on Christmas Day. It’s my 20th episode. So at this point, Hanukkah will be over Christmas will be in progress. Um (yes) but all the presents will have been bought and given and open. And I’m like a big believer in giving experiences rather than things a lot, because I don’t like all that clutter coming into my house. (totally) But what advice do you have for all the, the parents out there who have all this stuff? And what to do now with all the stuff (yeah) because, because some families, I mean, they go so overboard, and then there’s, you know, grandparents and aunts and uncles and all these people (yeah) sending things, and it’s just to me anyway, it’s completely overwhelming.

Shira Gill  27:21

Totally? Well, so I will say, for the future. I always recommend, it’s like the perfect opportunity to get your family on board to de-clutter prior to the holidays, to make space for all of the stuff that’s coming in. But once it does come in, I would say the first thing I do like with my kids, is I’ll just ask them the question like, is there any of the stuff that you got that you’re not into that we can re-gift that we can donate to charity, or give to kids that don’t get as many gifts as you so just posing that question without pressure or breathing down their backs, but just I will say that to my kids, you know, when they’re sitting in a sea of presents, (Mm hmm.) And they will often surprise me and like, say, you know, we have a lot of art stuff, I don’t need this art kit, or like, I’m never going to read this book, you can donate that. So just giving the invitation first off, like to be open to not keeping everything like just that that’s something that can exist. So I would say, first off, just look at all of the things that you’ve received, and that your kids have received, and ask yourself and ask them, Is there anything here that we’re really we’re not gonna use or love, then get all of that stuff straight to charity, like load up the car, I think it’s great to bring your kids with you. So that you can really have that experience and earn that value of like paying it forward and talking about how privileged we are and how we have access and other people don’t. And then the second piece of it is immediately finding a home for the new items. So we do that in our house just in broad categories. So like generally, my kids, you know, the kinds of things they get will fall into a handful of broad categories. They’ll get like arts and crafts, they’ll get books, they’ll get games, they’ll get puzzles. So after we’ve opened everything up determined what we want to keep and what we want to get rid of. We take all the papers, and we kind of go on a little put away mission. So it’s like Alright, let’s get all the art and let’s go to the arts and crafts area and put it where it goes. And that’s a great opportunity too if you find there’s no room to put it away. Now your kid is excited because they have new fun shiny things. You can say, Wow, this doesn’t fit like which old things do you want to get rid of so we can make room to put this away. So I’m a big believer in boundaries and practicing the one in one out rule so that you can maintain a reasonable amount of stuff that you can manage. So It’s all about like finding the places where all of those things go. And in our house, it’s very simple. Like, we just have a little cart for games and puzzles. So if that’s full, and we get eight new games and puzzles, I’ll just say, okay, which ones do you want to get rid of? So we can fit these new ones. So it’s, it’s that concept of like, there is a boundary, there is a boundary here, we can’t just keep growing and growing and growing this stuff to infinity when we’re, we’re, we’re drowning and stuff.

Pam Howard  30:30

Yeah. What about those gifts that, you know, maybe grandma or aunt Marge, or somebody gives you that? You know, they come over often. And if you got rid of it, they would maybe be offended? Like, how do you handle those types of things?

Shira Gill  30:44

Yeah, well, so I mean, and we have local grandparents who love to give gifts. And so I mean, the first thing that I would suggest is just planting the seed in advance of, we’re really loving experiences or things that don’t add more volume to our house. And, you know, some grandparents will be more receptive to that than others. But, you know, we’ve even had, um, like, my mother in law loves taking my girls to the theater. So we’ve said, you know, what they really would love is like a subscription to go see a bunch of shows with you. And, that’s something where she has buy in, because it’s like a fun experience they can do together. So that’s the first thing I would suggest is just trying to focus on like experiential gifts or things that are even like one big gift that everybody goes in on instead of like getting a dozen small things. But short of that, you know, like if you make the requests, and they’re not honored, like for me in my house, if we get a million things from a grandparent, I’ll literally say to the grandparent, like we have a small house, we don’t have room for all of this, do you want to keep some of it at your house, otherwise, I’m going to need to donate it to charity. And I know that’s like for a lot of people that breaks their brain, the idea of Santa, um (yeah) I can say that, like I’ve said it many times and like the world hasn’t ended. And you know, my mother and mother in law don’t always love my rules and guidelines. But my feeling is like it is my house. And I do get some rules about the quantity of things that live in my house. So if you’re going to keep giving more and more and more things, I’m just going to donate it to charity.

Pam Howard  32:32

Yeah… Great.

Shira Gill  32:35

Or like cut and dry. Yeah, or, you know, if you feel like that’s unbearable, then maybe it is worth it. That stuff is worth the space that it takes up in your home to not have the conflict or not feel guilty. But I think it’s just a matter of like really being clear about that with yourself and feeling good about your reasons for keeping it.

Pam Howard  33:00

Okay, awesome advice. So when people are listening to this, and you, you’re talking about like, we have an arts and crafts area, and we have a place for puzzles and games and things like that, I’m all on board with all of it. I love everything you’re saying. But I’m just imagining some parents are listening to this and going, I don’t have all that stuff. And it’s so overwhelming just to be thinking about, you know (yeah), all of this stuff and where to put it and how to organize it. So where do you tell people to start? (yeah, so) How to start and find the time too, to water (totally)? Yeah,

Shira Gill  33:31

Yeah. So it does take time. And I think you have to work with the time you’ve got and, and really, I always advocate for starting small so that you don’t get overwhelmed and quit. So what that could look like is one category at a time or one small space at a time. So if you feel totally overwhelmed listening to this, and you’re like, I have no idea where to start, I would say pick one category. And maybe that’s just like your child’s dolls. And what that would look like is round up all the dolls in the whole house so that you and your child can have a sense of the volume, and then decide how many dolls is a reasonable quantity to own. And then pick the favorites and donate the rest and then like case closed on golf.

Pam Howard  34:20

Yeah, I’ve done that. I we’ve actually done that. Not dolls, but like stuffed animals. (Uh huh). And we did that. And I said, Okay, you guys can each keep I think I don’t remember. I think it was like 10. And (yeah) they went through and they had to make some tough decisions, but they did it.

Shira Gill  34:34

Totally. It’s like pick your favorites. You know, like let’s pick a number pick your favorites. The rest we’re going to donate done. And, and so I would say even if you have like 15 minutes in your day, 15 minutes can go a long way. I actually have, um, if you go to my website, I give away a little freebie which I call the five minute makeover. And it’s it’s all based on this idea of the compound effect of little things like small, smart, repetitive actions are what’s going to lead to a massive transformation over time. So if you look around your whole house and you feel overwhelmed, pick one small thing, and just do a thorough solid job without one thing. And then when you have another five or 10 or 15 minutes, you just pick the next thing and keep plugging away.

Pam Howard  35:27

All right, I gotta ask you, because I know this is running long. And I have a paper problem, Shira (Ok, haha). I need help with my paper problem. Like I, I am the type of person I, you know, I love to put pen to paper. And I take lots of notes. Like right now, like, as we’re talking, I’m taking notes, and I have little pieces of paper and notebooks and post it notes and all kinds of stuff. And you know, and I was talking about it with my sister. And she’s like, you know, do you ever look at those things? I’m like, well, sometimes Yeah, I do. Like, I will go back and like, refer to notes that I’ve taken or things. So I just don’t know how to organize myself around paper. What can you tell me?

Shira Gill  36:04

Oh, man. I’m like, How long do you have for that one. Um, I mean, it’s funny, I’m a paper person to like, I’m actually more analog than digital, I write my to do list on a notebook. What I would say is to have like one little daily practice where you get rid of stuff that’s unnecessary. So like, if you even just spent two minutes a day, looking around your desk and saying, oh, will these posts I don’t need and I’ll recycle them, then you’re not going to end up with like, paper for day use my practice with like, I have a to do list in a notebook. And I’m writing things and blog posts and ideas kind of throughout my day, and it can look like a hot mess. By the end of the day, before I go to bed, I’ll just do a scan of that jumble. And say, Okay, it’s basically like an editing of what’s on the paper. So I’ll say, Okay, there’s like 62 things on this paper, five of them are valuable, I’m going to scrap the rest and put the five on my pad for tomorrow to remember. So it’s, it’s starting to edit in whatever little way you can, whether that’s, you know, at the end of the day, crossing off a few things that are unnecessary or recycling a few post it, I also would give you the advice of trying to centralize, so instead of having like, post-its and notepads and journals, and kind of scattering your paper everywhere, to have one centralized place where you write your notes.

Pam Howard  37:47

Okay, I like the idea of doing just a little bit every day, I can start with that. What do you think about scanning everything? Like I know, some people say scan it all, you know, into your computer, but I don’t know about that…

Shira Gill  37:58

Yeah, I just don’t see that people actually revisit. So that seems like a lot of time and energy. I mean, my, the foundation of all of the work that I do is like the mantra is kind of like your life will be better with less. So everything I’m always looking at, instead of organizing clutter, we want to get rid of the clutter. So like with your papers everywhere, I wouldn’t want you to spend the time scanning them or organizing them or filing them, I would want to get to the root cause of why do you have all of these things? And how can we make a much more streamlined, simplified system for you to keep track of what’s in your brain? So of course, that’s like a much you know, (Yeah) I could do worse on that one.

Pam Howard  38:45

I’ll have to hire you to help me with that.

Shira Gill  38:48

I think that may be coming next after my closet program I’ve been getting a lot of I need help with paper. But (right) for me, I would just say like the biggest thing that I would say is like question all of your paper and get rid of anything you can let go of every single day.

Pam Howard  39:07

Okay, okay. That’s good. That’s good. So speaking of hiring, you tell us how can we work with you? What do you offer?(Sure) Um, and where can we find more about you?

Shira Gill  39:17

Okay, so my website I assume will be in the show notes. It’s just my name shiragill.com. That’s where you can find everything or over at Instagram at Shira Gill. And basically, I work with people in two ways. I take a limited number of in person, one on one hands on clients. And I’m based in the San Francisco Bay area, but I do travel. And then I also launched a virtual program that teaches how to de-clutter how to organize how to style like a pro. And so that program will be reopening on New Year’s Eve. You can get on the wait list right now. Um, it has sold out every time so if you’re interested, I would say hop on the wait list. So you’ll be notified right away when we open and you can get a spot. And I always love hearing from people. So feel free to um, email me or contact me through Instagram, and just say hi.

Pam Howard  40:17

Oh fantastic. How long is your virtual program?

Shira Gill  40:20

So the program runs for six weeks. And it’s a whole group of women all over the world doing it together. Super fun. We have a private group where we post before and afters and we share resources. And it’s a blast. And, and the membership also comes with all of these fun bonuses. So I share my curated shopping list for all of my favorite organizing products. And I’m adding a folding tutorial and a minimalist packing guide. And, um so you get a lot of stuff with your membership.

Pam Howard  40:54

Awesome. Okay. (yeah) So yeah, all of the information will be in the show notes so you guys can go check her out. And I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all of your awesome knowledge with us. And I’m going to go seriously, because it’s a Friday I’m going to spend the weekend, uh, going through my papers and trying to get rid of as much as I can.

Shira Gill  41:17

I love it. Let me know how it goes. (Alright, I will.) Thank you for having me. (Happy New Year!) You too! Thanks. Bye.

Pam Howard  41:26

Bye bye.

Thank you for listening to the Less Drama More Mama podcast. If you like this episode, please take a moment to write a quick review on iTunes. And make sure you subscribe, too, so you never miss a show. Got a question, comment, or idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at pam@lessdramamoremama.com